So I’m a part of many communities and I pug everything that I do. Right now my 4 toons are 2500+ and have all killed heroic jailer. I’ve been helping out my friends Guild recently and I realize that I get frustrated pretty quickly joining the same group of people when clearly there’s a segment of that group that has no business being there.
It’s no big deal to carry some people in a pug, If I’m annoyed I leave. But when I am regularly running with the same group that overstacks by healers because 2 of them are pretty much afk, I start to get toxic mentally. I’ve had 2 instances in SL where I left a heroic guild because of this.
I love helping people but I hate smashing my head against the wall because people try to be nice and inclusive, by bringing a HPriest that gets out healer by the prot warrior on heroic lords.
I prefer to be a freelance player, going from group to group and help where I can. I pop into prog pugs all the time, spend some time on a boss or 2 then go to the next. But being in guild Prog is just not for me.
it sounds like no you dont actually like helping at all. you like things being easy and everyone performing at your level, which sounds worst then it is…most people feel this way honestly lol. but people that do “love helping people” remain patient and try their best to make others better, and ya…carry the group alot of the time. the reward? lasting friendships sometimes, frustration all the time lol but thats part of the deal.
you learned you are not good at helping and dont enjoy it. good news is thats not a requirement of this game. Only downside is you may have trouble sticking with guilds but you will likely enjoy your time in game alot more if you simply stop worrying about it and play the way you want.
I don’t pay attention to the healers first, my eyes are on the DPS pulling really bad numbers.
Even if it’s just one poor DPS, the group is better off kicking them as it scales the difficulty down. Just keep picking off weak links until you get to a core group. That’s what I would do
It is not unreasonable to expect people to play somewhat on a similar level on content that they would consider difficult. But when there are healers being outhealed by tanks, then it’s also reasonable to not be happy playing with people that aren’t putting as much effort.
of course not, its completely reasonable to want people to pull their weight lol. you just cant really have it both ways, you either enjoy helping or you leave when you feel your time is being wasted. you cant really enjoy helping, but only the people that dont need your help lol i mean we all enjoy that right.
For farm kills, I think it’s OK to bring some carries, but I can understand the frustration when carries get brought to prog.
That being said, it also depends on the situation. If the guild is openly a casual guild and wants to bring everyone for everything, then that is fair. But, if the guild is supposed to be focused on prog and they are consistently allowing carries to join, then that is a problem.
It sounds like you might be happier in a more prog-focused guild that will expect every raider to be competent. But, keep in mind, you will also have to make sure you don’t slack off in such a guild.
I am not saying you will have a problem with it. However, but there is a pro and con to everything.
Even in guilds like that, people who are doing all the work are eventually going to get tired of people coming along who do nothing but make it harder for everyone else.
And then the people who are doing all the effort eventually get tired and quit, and then things get even harder for the team after that.
o i meant the same, i mean for sure you might carry some times in those type of guilds but as for helping i meant feedback, rotation help, doing easier content like low keys to build confidence and skill. it takes alot more work then most care to do, myself included these days.
I’ve always thought “friendly progression” was kind of funny. If a person has any kind of drive, it’s going to make them nuts. Some people are laid back enough to waiting and waiting and wait for drops so they can make progression thru over gearing alone.
If it’s not for you move on but do so gracefully. Don’t burn bridges in a fiery rage. hahaha
I was in a guild like that before and this is true. It was sometimes very frustrating.
Nonetheless, that is the path guild management has chosen. So, even if the guild eventually falls apart because of it, I think that is fine as long as they were not deceptive about it (pretending to be a prog guild, but allowing all carry friends to come along).
Of course, such a guild is not for everyone. So, if someone doesn’t like such guilds, or any other type of guild, they can and should choose to leave to find another guild they will be happier in.
The fact of the matter is that many heroic guilds are full of completely atrocious players. I know that sounds elitist, but heroic really is designed for basically anyone who can put even the slightest amount of time into the game to achieve AoTC.
If you are consistently the best player in every heroic guild you join, it’s probably time to move on to a mythic guild. Mythic raiding, despite a lot of popular misconceptions, REALLY doesn’t require that much effort to participate in, especially if it’s not a guild that gets CE consistently.
In the immortal words of Ron Swanson, “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day.Don’t teach a man to fish …and feed yourself. He’s a grown man. And fishing’s not that hard”.
Its also unavoidable for heroic focused guilds. I raid lead for one on a deadish server cluster and I’ve kept track of progress of various guilds and server io, partially for the reasons you describe of dealing with weak play and tempering my own expectations. As of now there are two(one horde, one alliance) guilds on our server that have gotten aotc as a guild, and one guild 4/11 mythic that is horde and also isn’t the horde guild that did aotc. This isn’t because our server lacks “good” players either there are various players of various classes that are pushing relevant content in lfg, according to r.io there are 78 players on my server group that are over 3k m+ rating.
However most of the guild groups on server are not a collection of these players since most pug their stuff or don’t raid to begin with. At the end of the day guilds like mine have to work with what we got and fortunately even if players are weak mechanically, don’t do their research, and various misc other issues they at least keep a good attitude and listen to instructions, and I’ve found that I have to give a lot of them. I could probably have aotc if I so desired by finding a group that can kill h jailer easy, but I’d rather kill h jailer with my group problems included. Its a matter of preference, I like my raid.
But a big reason why things are as you describe is entirely because the roster boss is far harder to deal with then anything in sepulcher and somehow despite everything blizzard has been buffing that boss every patch on my server since it only dies a little more every patch either from that one good guild on server transferring to a much greener pasture, or transferring horde, or both, I would know I was part of at least 3 that left this server.
Expecting every player to know their class and be able to adapt I’ve found is an expectation that belongs in mythic, heroic is for players who can do the bare minimum of class proficiency and do mechanics well or players who can play their class and suck at mechanics. At the end of the day guild progression is heavily about working with what you got toward a greater goal and keeping that goal realistic, in my case I think my group can get aotc and if we had the roster we could probably push the “free” mythic bosses and then stop before hitting a wall and breaking morale. M+ is nice as a outlet for being able to push high end content without going through a circus of social hoops to get into a place that does mythic raiding.
In a PUG you just boot the lower performers. In a guild you have to deal with them week after week. It’s why I took a break from raiding this tier.
… yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
The fact that you think it is weird that someone wants other people to be in their skill-range is what is wrong with this game. People constantly looking for a carry or lacking the ability to self-reflect and self-select themselves out of content they aren’t capable of, rather than people just being able to play content with other players who are actually good.
We have this entire complicated apparatus of logs, rating systems, and so forth just so players have the slimmest chance of playing with players actually in their skill range.
Yup. If someone isn’t self-motivated to improve and they’re not a bench-warmer I am OUT of there. It’s big, big, BIGGGGG cringe when “Mythic” guilds have bad players who don’t try to get better and guild leadership does nothing about those players. Players who are good are essentially always open to getting better - anyone shut off from improving is probably terrible.
Forum elitists pretend that Mythic Raiding is super hard because they’re jockeying for favors from Ion Hazzikostas, but the reality of the situation, from my experience so far, is that Mythic is actually not that bad at all for most of the raid. 80% of the raid’s difficulty is typically within 2 bosses, the rest are really not bad at all if you can do AOTC and you pulled your own weight.
I don’t think expect anyone to be on my level. I expect that if people are drastically under the average performer that is an issue. If the median DPS on lords is 14k DPS a few people are doing 7k that’s an issue. Note, I said median not average
