So I re-watched the cinamatic where Anduin is freed and Arthas dies for the final time and the comments just disgust me. People despise Sylvanas getting a redemption, but says Arthas deserves one? Why?
Arthas burned Stratholme, killed everyone.
Arthas trapped his own men in Northrend, betrayed his own merc who helped him.
Arthas killed his own father and let the Scourge loose in his own kingdom.
Arthas invaded Quel’thalas and almost drove the High Elves into extinction. Corrupted their Sunwell.
Arthas attacked Dalaran, murdered a number of archmages including Jaina’s mentor, and helped bring the Burning Legion into the world.
He did arguably worse than Sylvanas did. She commited 1 genocide on one civilization, Arthas commited 3. I may not be a fan of Sylvanas getting redeemed, but the same people who rage over it but also want Arthas redeemed is just hypocrisy.
Personally, I find his sendoff fitting. Yes, I said it. Why? Because his story is OVER. It’s been over since WotLK. What is there to be done with him if they did decide to bring him back? Do like what they did with Illidan and whitewash most of his bad deeds? Or how bout telling us we were WRONG to kill Arthas and we have to bring him back for some grand purpose?
Not to sound like a Sylvanas simp, but I do agree with your assessment on this.
The difference is that Sylvanas did nothing wrong…if you think about it, the “genocide” was officially about protecting the Horde for generations to come.
I have to agree with this. Regardless of how deserving (or not) he was of redemption, his arc had long since finished. If they tried to give him a redemption arc, it would’ve felt more like they were Weekend at Bernie’s-ing his character than closing the loop on him.
While I don’t think he deserved “redemption” it’s sad when Garrosh gets a better send off. Arthas is a huge part of the games early lore and here we hit our call back expansion, but unlike Illidan and the Burning Legion Arthas got teased as part of the expansion with the little videos and then nothing really but his spark fading out. He didn’t deserve redemption but he did deserve the chance to say good bye.
Methinks his story is just beginning. The end was too anticlimatic for me to be a real end. His soul is probably going to end up in Revendeath, and his penance will probably be very very long, perhaps as a muck dredger for a few billion years.
I don’t think he deserves redemption. I also don’t believe Sylvanas got it, either, or ever will.
She’s been banished to hell with a task that ends in her being the single remaining soul in the Maw. No one but Uther trusted her, and no one said a “we forgive you uwu.”
She jumped and you could almost hear a ZeldaCDI_Good.mp4
Only if you have absolutely no imagination whatsoever, and cannot tie his established backstory (and not the retconned bs) in to the WoW lore. (Actual lore, not the horse pucky that has been spewed out as of late.)
I don’t think either of them should have gotten redemption, and I think both their stories were ended with WotLK. They just kept Sylvanas around, and I guess decided later everything she did was for the Jailer.
That said a common argument around Arthas is that he wasn’t in control of his own actions the moment he touched Frostmourne. Not manipulated like Sylvanas was, but actively mind controlled.
That would make the worst of the actions not his, and make him somebody who went unhinged and did some terrible things trying to save his homeland because he didn’t see any other way.
Of course even if the original story was over they could have told a new one with him like they did for Sylvanas, however given the quality of writing in Shadowlands it’s probably better that Arthas didn’t really get any attention.
I know this is a bait thread, since it’s a topic that’s been done to death, but I’m kind of bored.
They were already doomed, undeath was rightfully recognized as a fate worse than death, the city was going to produce an undead army of immense size. If Blizzard’s original writing team for the WC3 had wanted Arthas to be wrong, they could have written a situation where a reasonable alternative existed. Instead, the story they wrote had Uther and Jaina totally unaware of how quickly a population would turn (since they hadn’t witnessed the prior town’s quick turn like Arthas had - Arthas was the only one of the three who knew how quick the plague acted).
Maybe they retconned something later. Don’t know. I remember that original aspect of the plot though.
Forcing a situation he believes will lead the army to confront what’s responsible for the undead plague. That’s exactly the kind of thing the army is for. He’s also trapping himself.
Probably the one thing Arthas deserves blame for. However, the situation is dire and he believes it’s necessary to stop an existential threat. It makes him an anti-hero, someone once heroic willing to do dark deeds out of necessity.
He was not really “Arthas” for any of this. Certainly his “soul” (when it was in his body) was trying to do everything possible to stop the undead scourge, and was tricked into thinking Frostmourne would stop it. Instead, Frostmourne stole his soul.
The soul of Arthas being stolen by Frostmourne, and no longer in control, is actually something that’s not a retcon from the Shadowlands era either. Back in the RTS the story acknowledged that the soul of Arthas was no longer in his body when he did all his treacherous acts against his father / Lordaeron.
The worst thing his “soul” did was betray his mercenaries in a desperate bid to stop the demon he thought was responsible for everything. But put people in a situation of existential threat to their home, and they’ll often be willing to do dark things. Easily redeemable.
The treatment of Arthas is probably the single best example of Shadowlands spitting on the history of the franchise. Bringing him back as a fading sparkle just long enough for Sylvanas to lecture him on why he shouldn’t exist… Good God.
Taking the pet project of one of the lead narrative designer and having her, of all characters, be the one to give a half-hearted send off to a fan favorite character is probably why people didn’t like it.
Yes, his story was over. That’s totally fine and acceptable. No, he did not deserve redemption. He also didn’t deserve this new “ending” either.
Jaina and Uther, the two people that Arthas betrayed the most, said almost nothing. Meanwhile Sylvanas got a full monologue before dismissing him.
Best option would have been to leave it be and let fans speculate for years to come.
I don’t think either deserve redemption. But when you do mental gymnastics to excuse Sylvanas that could also fit to excuse Arthas for the same reasons…it doesn’t make sense. Both we’re swayed by the Jailer. Why forgive one and not the other?
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Most players agree that’s also true for Sylvanas but we’ll no doubt be seeing her again sadly because the writer couldn’t bring himself to just let her die in the 2nd raid like she should have.
Ahh, yes, the defensive offensive that resulted in the near extinction of an entire race of people. Of course.
And just a reminder, it was all for nothing. She ended up leaving the Jailer after feeding him the souls of Night Elf innocents and children. She killed them all because she listened to the worst villain in the franchise’s history.
